MS Word problem

[Mike Williams]

I see that Micro$oft have been caught thieving again! The evil bastards
attempt to screw everybody into the ground by aggressively attempting to
patent just about everything they do, often including things they have
themselves previously stolen, and yet when they want to include somone
else's work into their own bloatware they just go ahead and steal it. They
have in recent years been caught behaving like coporate gansters in Jamaica
and now they have been caught stealing stuff from Canada. What a bunch of
unprincipled bastards!

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/microsoft-must-pay-copyright-cash-084855404.html

[Mayayana]

|I see that Micro$oft have been caught thieving again! The evil bastards
| attempt to screw everybody into the ground by aggressively attempting to
| patent just about everything they do, often including things they have
| themselves previously stolen, and yet when they want to include somone
| else's work into their own bloatware they just go ahead and steal it. They
| have in recent years been caught behaving like coporate gansters in
Jamaica
| and now they have been caught stealing stuff from Canada. What a bunch of
| unprincipled bastards!
|
| http://uk.news.yahoo.com/microsoft-must-pay-copyright-cash-084855404.html
|

Is that something to celebrate? As I understand it,
i4i has patented something akin to object embedding
and is applying it to a publicly standardized file format.
Shouldn't we blame the patent office for this? Saying
that MS has "got their due" only strengthens the overall
system of copyright and patent "booty", which ends up
creating a tech. world ruled by giants, while the little
people have to pay protection money.
One might call it the World of the iWarlords... if Steve
Jobs hasn't already been granted a copyright on "i". :)

[Auric__]

Post by Mike Williams
I see that Micro$oft have been caught thieving again!

What does this have to do with VB? *THAT* at least they paid for.

[Access Developer]

Post by Auric__

Post by Mike Williams
I see that Micro$oft have been caught
thieving again!

What does this have to do with VB?
*THAT* at least they paid for.

Mike's got a hardon against Microsoft, so cut him a little slack for being
off-topic. There aren't enough posts here now for it to matter as much as it
once did.

The U.S. Patent Office, knowing little about computers or software, began
granting unwarranted software patents years ago, and companies of all sizes
are just taking advantage of the Patent Office's idiocy. Everybody and the
fleas on their dogs are applying for patents, and having them granted, for
trivial, non-unique, non-original work and then suing everyone in sight.

It's not just Microsoft, and it's not 'just desserts'.

Larry

[Michael Cole]

Post by Access Developer
It's not just Microsoft, and it's not 'just desserts'.

Minor quibble - you are correct in that it is not 'just desserts'. It
is actually 'just deserts' (one 's').

[mbyerley]

Post by Access Developer
It's not just Microsoft, and it's not 'just desserts'.

Minor quibble - you are correct in that it is not 'just desserts'. It is
actually 'just deserts' (one 's').

your error. Dessert is food and desert is dry arid region.

--
Michael Cole

[Michael Cole]

Post by mbyerley

Post by Access Developer
It's not just Microsoft, and it's not 'just desserts'.

Minor quibble - you are correct in that it is not 'just desserts'. It is
actually 'just deserts' (one 's').

your error. Dessert is food and desert is dry arid region.

Which might be relevent if we were talking about either food or dry
arid regions, wheras we are actually talking about a desert being what
someone deserves. One 's'.

Contrary to popular belief, the phrase has nothing to do with food.
Not my error.

[mbyerley]

Post by mbyerley

Post by Michael Cole

Post by Access Developer
It's not just Microsoft, and it's not 'just desserts'.

Minor quibble - you are correct in that it is not 'just desserts'. It
is actually 'just deserts' (one 's').

your error. Dessert is food and desert is dry arid region.

Which might be relevent if we were talking about either food or dry arid
regions, wheras we are actually talking about a desert being what someone
deserves. One 's'.
Contrary to popular belief, the phrase has nothing to do with food. Not
my error.

Yup.. My mistake.

--
Michael Cole

[Jeff Johnson]

Post by Access Developer
It's not just Microsoft, and it's not 'just desserts'.

Minor quibble - you are correct in that it is not 'just desserts'. It is
actually 'just deserts' (one 's').

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/07/its-just-deserts-not-just-desserts/

[Jeff Johnson]

Post by Jeff Johnson

Post by Access Developer
It's not just Microsoft, and it's not 'just desserts'.

Minor quibble - you are correct in that it is not 'just desserts'. It is
actually 'just deserts' (one 's').

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/07/its-just-deserts-not-just-desserts/

HAHAHAHAHA! Apparently I thought I had scrolled to the bottom of the list*
and I was in the current messages, so I didn't notice the date of the post I
was responding to until later.


*I sort ascending by date.

[Deanna Earley]

Post by Jeff Johnson

Post by Access Developer
It's not just Microsoft, and it's not 'just desserts'.

Minor quibble - you are correct in that it is not 'just desserts'. It is
actually 'just deserts' (one 's').

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/07/its-just-deserts-not-just-desserts/

Just like "another think coming" (instead of the common and apparently
incorrect "another thing coming") :)

[StrandElectric]

Post by Mike Williams
I see that Micro$oft have been caught thieving again! The evil bastards
attempt to screw everybody into the ground by aggressively attempting to
patent just about everything they do, often including things they have
themselves previously stolen, and yet when they want to include somone
else's work into their own bloatware they just go ahead and steal it. They
have in recent years been caught behaving like coporate gansters in Jamaica
and now they have been caught stealing stuff from Canada. What a bunch of
unprincipled bastards!
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/microsoft-must-pay-copyright-cash-084855404.html

And I believe that in discussing the "Cloud Computing" model, where it is
proposed that all your software and data will be held on a distant company's
machine, so that your own is merely an internet terminal, some learned twit
has stated that one of the "trusted" companies to provide such hosting might
be Microsoft! Incredible!

[David Kaye]

Post by Mike Williams
and now they have been caught stealing stuff from Canada. What a bunch of
unprincipled bastards!

Yeah, just like Apple stealing the mouse and the windowing environment from
Xerox Star.

[DanS]

Post by Mike Williams
I see that Micro$oft have been caught thieving again! The
evil bastards attempt to screw everybody into the ground by
aggressively attempting to patent just about everything
they do, often including things they have themselves
previously stolen, and yet when they want to include somone
else's work into their own bloatware they just go ahead and
steal it. They have in recent years been caught behaving
like coporate gansters in Jamaica and now they have been
caught stealing stuff from Canada. What a bunch of
unprincipled bastards!
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/microsoft-must-pay-copyright-cash-0
84855404.html

Actually, s/w patent are ridiculous and the entire system
needs to be overhauled for the computer industry.

There are almost no *truly* innovative ideas anymore, and some
companies buy & apply for and receive patents as their main
business now.

The system is ocmpletely broken.....

Take this for example.... http://arstechnica.com/open-
source/news/2009/11/microsofts-psuedo-sudo-patent-doesnt-
really-cover-sudo.ars

....while the initial reaction across the open source & linux
communities was appauled that MS was able to 'patent' the SUDO
command, which was mistakn, I see nothing innovative in the
nature of what this patent really covers.....

What it covers is when elevated rightas are needed to do
something, the OS will show you a GUI of all users that have
admin rights, so you can pick it off a list, instead of having
to type in a user name.

That's it, in a nutshell.

Forgive me if I'm simplfying this, but isn't this just a
database lookup table ?

I mean, really, the OS will look through the registry (or
wherever this info is stored), filter out which don't have
admin rights, and then present them to you in a box which you
can scroll up or down to highlight the one you want to select,
and prese enter.

This certainly isn't anything 'innovative'.

[mbyerley]

Post by DanS

Post by Mike Williams
I see that Micro$oft have been caught thieving again! The
evil bastards attempt to screw everybody into the ground by
aggressively attempting to patent just about everything
they do, often including things they have themselves
previously stolen, and yet when they want to include somone
else's work into their own bloatware they just go ahead and
steal it. They have in recent years been caught behaving
like coporate gansters in Jamaica and now they have been
caught stealing stuff from Canada. What a bunch of
unprincipled bastards!
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/microsoft-must-pay-copyright-cash-0
84855404.html

Actually, s/w patent are ridiculous and the entire system
needs to be overhauled for the computer industry.
There are almost no *truly* innovative ideas anymore, and some

I have thought for a very long time, that in any given language to
address a specific problem, and the problem is addressed many to the fourth
or so, that exact source code replication is inevitable, so in that context,
when the particular replicator comes up with the exact solution, independent
of the discovery or exposure to the originating source code, how has he
violated anything?

Music is another shithole of copyrights. An album/song can't be sold by a
label until each song has been checked for sampling and if any song has (I
don't know the exact standard) sampling, inadvertant or not, the label has
to secure a release by either paying for or being granted outright before
releasing for sale because of the monetary exposure..

Post by DanS
companies buy & apply for and receive patents as their main
business now.
The system is ocmpletely broken.....
Take this for example.... http://arstechnica.com/open-
source/news/2009/11/microsofts-psuedo-sudo-patent-doesnt-
really-cover-sudo.ars
....while the initial reaction across the open source & linux
communities was appauled that MS was able to 'patent' the SUDO
command, which was mistakn, I see nothing innovative in the
nature of what this patent really covers.....
What it covers is when elevated rightas are needed to do
something, the OS will show you a GUI of all users that have
admin rights, so you can pick it off a list, instead of having
to type in a user name.
That's it, in a nutshell.
Forgive me if I'm simplfying this, but isn't this just a
database lookup table ?
I mean, really, the OS will look through the registry (or
wherever this info is stored), filter out which don't have
admin rights, and then present them to you in a box which you
can scroll up or down to highlight the one you want to select,
and prese enter.
This certainly isn't anything 'innovative'.

[StrandElectric]

Post by mbyerley

Post by DanS

Post by Mike Williams
I see that Micro$oft have been caught thieving again! The
evil bastards attempt to screw everybody into the ground by
aggressively attempting to patent just about everything
they do, often including things they have themselves
previously stolen, and yet when they want to include somone
else's work into their own bloatware they just go ahead and
steal it. They have in recent years been caught behaving
like coporate gansters in Jamaica and now they have been
caught stealing stuff from Canada. What a bunch of
unprincipled bastards!
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/microsoft-must-pay-copyright-cash-0
84855404.html

Actually, s/w patent are ridiculous and the entire system
needs to be overhauled for the computer industry.
There are almost no *truly* innovative ideas anymore, and some

I have thought for a very long time, that in any given language to
address a specific problem, and the problem is addressed many to the
fourth or so, that exact source code replication is inevitable, so in that
context, when the particular replicator comes up with the exact solution,
independent of the discovery or exposure to the originating source code,
how has he violated anything?
Music is another shithole of copyrights. An album/song can't be sold by
a label until each song has been checked for sampling and if any song has
(I don't know the exact standard) sampling, inadvertant or not, the label
has to secure a release by either paying for or being granted outright
before releasing for sale because of the monetary exposure..

Post by DanS
companies buy & apply for and receive patents as their main
business now.
The system is ocmpletely broken.....
Take this for example.... http://arstechnica.com/open-
source/news/2009/11/microsofts-psuedo-sudo-patent-doesnt-
really-cover-sudo.ars
....while the initial reaction across the open source & linux
communities was appauled that MS was able to 'patent' the SUDO
command, which was mistakn, I see nothing innovative in the
nature of what this patent really covers.....
What it covers is when elevated rightas are needed to do
something, the OS will show you a GUI of all users that have
admin rights, so you can pick it off a list, instead of having
to type in a user name.
That's it, in a nutshell.
Forgive me if I'm simplfying this, but isn't this just a
database lookup table ?
I mean, really, the OS will look through the registry (or
wherever this info is stored), filter out which don't have
admin rights, and then present them to you in a box which you
can scroll up or down to highlight the one you want to select,
and prese enter.
This certainly isn't anything 'innovative'.

It all sounds like American lawyers to me...

[David Kerber]

[This followup was posted to comp.lang.basic.visual.misc and a copy was
sent to the cited author.]

In article <***@giganews.com>,
***@byerley.net says...

...

Post by mbyerley

Post by DanS
Actually, s/w patent are ridiculous and the entire system
needs to be overhauled for the computer industry.

Agreed; software is nothing more than a mathematical algorithm, and
therefore shouldn't be patentable, but currently is.

Post by mbyerley

Post by DanS
There are almost no *truly* innovative ideas anymore, and some

I have thought for a very long time, that in any given language to
address a specific problem, and the problem is addressed many to the fourth
or so, that exact source code replication is inevitable, so in that context,
when the particular replicator comes up with the exact solution, independent
of the discovery or exposure to the originating source code, how has he
violated anything?

That's just the way patents work. Even if you come up with something
completely independently, if somebody else has already patented it,
you're in violation; you don't have to have copied anything. It's not
the same as a trade secret, where somebody else is perfectly within
their rights to re-invent the wheel.

[DanS]

Post by David Kerber

Post by mbyerley

Post by DanS
There are almost no *truly* innovative ideas anymore,
and some

I have thought for a very long time, that in any given
language to
address a specific problem, and the problem is addressed
many to the fourth or so, that exact source code
replication is inevitable, so in that context, when the
particular replicator comes up with the exact solution,
independent of the discovery or exposure to the
originating source code, how has he violated anything?

That's just the way patents work. Even if you come up with
something completely independently, if somebody else has
already patented it, you're in violation; you don't have to
have copied anything. It's not the same as a trade secret,
where somebody else is perfectly within their rights to
re-invent the wheel.

Here's an example.....

http://www.emailman.com/web/servers.html

...."PrivateMail's PMKey Server installs as easily as an
office application, and its configuration wizard helps you get
your own mail server up & running in minutes. Features include
patent-pending filtering technology, receipted messages,
secure message delivery,"...........

What can be patented in an e-mail filtering system ?

IMO, nothing.....You have a list of items to look at in each
e-mail....each item in the list has one or more 'blacklisted'
data sets, or a fuzzy interpreter based on regex expresions.

That's certainly nothing innovative either. The e-mails are
stored in a database format. The db engine then provides
subsets of data that contain the criteria it's looking for,
and the e-mail system either deletes it, or forwards it, or
whatever it does.

[David Kerber]

[This followup was posted to comp.lang.basic.visual.misc and a copy was
sent to the cited author.]

Post by DanS

Post by David Kerber

Post by mbyerley

Post by DanS
There are almost no *truly* innovative ideas anymore,
and some

I have thought for a very long time, that in any given
language to
address a specific problem, and the problem is addressed
many to the fourth or so, that exact source code
replication is inevitable, so in that context, when the
particular replicator comes up with the exact solution,
independent of the discovery or exposure to the
originating source code, how has he violated anything?

That's just the way patents work. Even if you come up with
something completely independently, if somebody else has
already patented it, you're in violation; you don't have to
have copied anything. It's not the same as a trade secret,
where somebody else is perfectly within their rights to
re-invent the wheel.

Here's an example.....
http://www.emailman.com/web/servers.html
...."PrivateMail's PMKey Server installs as easily as an
office application, and its configuration wizard helps you get
your own mail server up & running in minutes. Features include
patent-pending filtering technology, receipted messages,
secure message delivery,"...........
What can be patented in an e-mail filtering system ?

Probably only the algorithm.

Post by DanS
IMO, nothing.....You have a list of items to look at in each
e-mail....each item in the list has one or more 'blacklisted'
data sets, or a fuzzy interpreter based on regex expresions.
That's certainly nothing innovative either. The e-mails are
stored in a database format. The db engine then provides
subsets of data that contain the criteria it's looking for,
and the e-mail system either deletes it, or forwards it, or
whatever it does.

I didn't say I agreed with it; I just said that's the way the law works
as of now, in the US. In fact, you clipped out my comments that said I
thought all software patents are inherently bogus.

[Dee Earley]

Post by Mike Williams
I see that Micro$oft have been caught thieving again!

Ah, just as off topic as everyone claims .NET to be...