Windows 8 Apps with Visual Basic

[Rudolf Harras]

Is it possible to do Windows 8 Apps with visual basic?

And if I have a Windows 8 Convertible Netbook/Tablet:
Can I compile as a normal Windows program, as a Windows 8 App optimized
for touch screens, and as a Windows 8 App for phones?
How would I get the App in the Store?

They whole thing is a little bit confusing and I didn't find clear
answers in the web. :(

[Mayayana]

A few distinctions: This is a VB group, mainly
for VB5/6. VB is for writing compiled Windows
software. It's not the same thing as VB.Net
If you're using .Net you can try the web forums
or this group:

microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.vb

Windows 8 and Windows RT, or Surface RT, are
two different things. Windows 8 in NT 6.2 It's
Windows, and you can write software for it.
Windows RT, and the Metro UI in Windows 8,
do not run Windows software. They run only
"apps" using the WinRT runtime. Those are the
programs that you can put into the MS online
store. They will not run on Windows itself.

(For all practical purposes, there are really two
OSs. Win8 and WinRT. Windows 8 includes the
WinRT system as Metro, but Windows RT does
not have Windows 8 capability. I'm not even sure
what Microsoft is calling Metro now. They started
out selling Surface tablets with "Windows RT", but
a lot of people returned the tablets when they
discovered they couldn't install Windows software
on them. I think now they've dropped "Windows"
from the name and just call it "Surface RT". I don't
know what other companies are calling their tablets
with RT OS.)

It sounds like what you want to do is to write
a Metro app. Even then, you can't write once
to run on the various systems. And while you
can use .Net, you can also use javascript. A
Metro app, from what I've been able to figure
out, is closer to an HTA -- software running in
a browser window -- than it is to compiled
software.

All of that is OT here. You'll need to research
the WinRT runtime and "modern style" apps.


"Rudolf Harras" <***@temporaryforwarding.com> wrote in message news:lgmb2u$q6c$***@dont-email.me...
| Is it possible to do Windows 8 Apps with visual basic?
|
| And if I have a Windows 8 Convertible Netbook/Tablet:
| Can I compile as a normal Windows program, as a Windows 8 App optimized
| for touch screens, and as a Windows 8 App for phones?
| How would I get the App in the Store?
|
| They whole thing is a little bit confusing and I didn't find clear
| answers in the web. :(

[Rudolf Harras]

Post by Mayayana
A few distinctions: This is a VB group, mainly
for VB5/6. VB is for writing compiled Windows
software. It's not the same thing as VB.Net
If you're using .Net you can try the web forums

Ok, but it might be the right group for my purpose anyway, since I am
used to Visual Basic 4. Didn't use .Net yet.

So maybe you know what I could do with Visual Basic 4 knowledge
nowadays. Is .Net similar? Does this include Visual Basic?
I'm confused now where to start, since there are so many different names
and products.

Actually there were three main features for using VB and I didn't find
them many other programming language:
- Just draw the buttons and text fields. No need to care about
complicated graphics and button press events
- Pressing F5 and see how my programm will run
- stopping it and using the direct window for checking variables etc.

If I could develop some Metro app with something that works similar,
that would be great.

[Mayayana]

With VB4 (32-bit?) you can produce Windows
software but I assume you need to ship the runtime
on most target systems.
You can't write Metro apps with VB 4/5/6. 32-bit
software will run on all Windows systems, but with
some limitations on 64-bit systems. (It's awkward,
at best, to write Shell extensions, for instance.)

You might want to look into .Net. I know you
can use it for Metro apps, though I don't know
if it's the best tool for that. You'll probably want
to check the MS forums to see what people are
using. One of these should have Metro groups:

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/forums/en-US/categories/
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en/categories/


"Rudolf Harras" <***@temporaryforwarding.com> wrote in message news:lgmt6d$m04$***@dont-email.me...
| Mayayana schrieb:
| > A few distinctions: This is a VB group, mainly
| > for VB5/6. VB is for writing compiled Windows
| > software. It's not the same thing as VB.Net
| > If you're using .Net you can try the web forums
| > or this group:
|
| Ok, but it might be the right group for my purpose anyway, since I am
| used to Visual Basic 4. Didn't use .Net yet.
|
| So maybe you know what I could do with Visual Basic 4 knowledge
| nowadays. Is .Net similar? Does this include Visual Basic?
| I'm confused now where to start, since there are so many different names
| and products.
|
| Actually there were three main features for using VB and I didn't find
| them many other programming language:
| - Just draw the buttons and text fields. No need to care about
| complicated graphics and button press events
| - Pressing F5 and see how my programm will run
| - stopping it and using the direct window for checking variables etc.
|
| If I could develop some Metro app with something that works similar,
| that would be great.

[Tom Shelton]

Post by Mayayana
A few distinctions: This is a VB group, mainly
for VB5/6. VB is for writing compiled Windows
software. It's not the same thing as VB.Net
If you're using .Net you can try the web forums
microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.vb
Windows 8 and Windows RT, or Surface RT, are
two different things.

Nope. They are the same thing. Windows RT is Windows 8 compiled on
ARM.

Post by Mayayana
Windows 8 in NT 6.2 It's
Windows, and you can write software for it.
Windows RT, and the Metro UI in Windows 8,
do not run Windows software. They run only
"apps" using the WinRT runtime. Those are the
programs that you can put into the MS online
store. They will not run on Windows itself.

What? The WinRT runtime is present on Windows 8 and Windows RT. Most
software written to target WinRT will run on both Windows 8 and Windows
RT. You just have to click the check box so that the software gets
compiled for ARM as well.

Post by Mayayana
(For all practical purposes, there are really two
OSs. Win8 and WinRT. Windows 8 includes the
WinRT system as Metro, but Windows RT does
not have Windows 8 capability.

That is completely wrong. In fact, Windows RT does contain the win32
API. How do you think Microsoft got office to run on it? The desktop?
Pretty much all of the standard command line tools? Many of the
standard class drivers that ship with windows? This is why you are
able to plug in a whole host of USB devices into a Surface RT/Surface 2
tablet and have them work.

There are two reasons that standard win32 software won't run on Windows
RT.

1) Processor architecture. Again, RT runs on ARM processors - so,
unless you compile your code for ARM, it aint going to run.

2) MS has limited access to the win32 api to first party only. They
have done this by not providing a set of compiler tools for win32 apps
and by turning on a flag in the NT kernel that disallows software that
isn't signed by MS from running.

There is a jail break for RT devices that turns off that kernel flag,
as well as several open source win32 projects that have been compiled
using MinGW to target the Tegra 3 processor in the Surface RT.

<snip>

Post by Mayayana
It sounds like what you want to do is to write
a Metro app. Even then, you can't write once
to run on the various systems.

Partially true... Software targeting the WinRT runtime will run on
both Windows 8 and Windows RT. Much of the code targeting WinRT
runtime will also work on Windows Phone 8 - but, not all of it, since
Windows Phone 8 only implements a limited subset of WinRT. The API
parity is expected to be much closer with Windows PHone 8.1. The fact
is you can get a fairly high degree of code reuse across Windows 8, RT
and Windows Phone - with much more comming in the not very distant
future.

And of course you realize that C++ is one of the surpported development
platforms across all 3 platforms as well? Just pointing out that you
are NOT limited to .NET or Javascript.

Of course, you have at least answered one thing for the OP correctly-
you can't use VB.CLASSIC in any form to write a windows store
application targeting the modern ui. The most you could do is create a
standard x86 standard win32 application and have it found via the
windows store - but, it wouldn't be usable for users on Windows RT
devices. And you certainly can't do anything with windows phone if you
are so inclined.

[Mayayana]

| Of course, you have at least answered one thing for the OP correctly-
| you can't use VB.CLASSIC in any form to write a windows store
| application targeting the modern ui. The most you could do is create a
| standard x86 standard win32 application

Yes. So why confuse things?

[Tom Shelton]

Post by Mayayana

Post by Tom Shelton
Of course, you have at least answered one thing for the OP
correctly- you can't use VB.CLASSIC in any form to write a windows
store application targeting the modern ui. The most you could do is
create a standard x86 standard win32 application

Yes. So why confuse things?

Just correcting all your technical errors.

[Mayayana]

| And of course you realize that C++ is one of the surpported development
| platforms across all 3 platforms as well? Just pointing out that you
| are NOT limited to .NET or Javascript.
|

I get a kick out of how you love to bring that up.
I realize you can use C++ for your souped-up Metro
HTAs. Do you realize that the only good reason for
that is so that Microsoft can make WinRT trinkets look
like fullscale programming?

Just as they gave C# slightly more power than VB.Net.
The vanity of many C++ programmers requires that they
be able to pretend to be Paul Bunyan, even if they're
only being allowed to trim the hedges.

By the way, will I be able to get your Anxious
Squirrels app for XP, seeing as how Windows and
WinRT are the same thing? As I understand it, the
idea is to find as many acorns containing Prozac
as possible, and I win when my squirrel gets blissed
out. Is that correct? I can't wait. It sounds like a
barrel of laughs. :)

[Tom Shelton]

Post by Mayayana

Post by Tom Shelton
And of course you realize that C++ is one of the surpported
development platforms across all 3 platforms as well? Just pointing
out that you are NOT limited to .NET or Javascript.

I get a kick out of how you love to bring that up.
I realize you can use C++ for your souped-up Metro
HTAs. Do you realize that the only good reason for
that is so that Microsoft can make WinRT trinkets look
like fullscale programming?

Joe, you seriously need to come out of your cave. You can do quite a
lot with WinRT applications. You just have to know what your doing...

Post by Mayayana
Just as they gave C# slightly more power than VB.Net.
The vanity of many C++ programmers requires that they
be able to pretend to be Paul Bunyan, even if they're
only being allowed to trim the hedges.

LOL. Inferiority complex much?

Post by Mayayana
By the way, will I be able to get your Anxious
Squirrels app for XP, seeing as how Windows and
WinRT are the same thing?

I never said Windows and WinRT are the same thing. Windows 8 and
Windows RT are the same thing.

WinRT is an API that runs on Windows 8/Windows RT - with a subset being
available on Windows PHone 8. So, to anwer your question - if I ever
were to create a Anxious Squirrels app, no it wouldn't run on XP
because MS isn't distributing WinRT for XP. Not that I would care -
since I haven't touched XP since like 2008 or 2009.

Someday, you should learn the difference between an API and an
operating system...

Post by Mayayana
As I understand it, the
idea is to find as many acorns containing Prozac
as possible, and I win when my squirrel gets blissed
out. Is that correct? I can't wait. It sounds like a
barrel of laughs. :)

Well, considering an assanine game like "Flappy Bird" was making
something like $50 G's a day for the developer - that might not be such
a bad idea :)

[Schmidt]

Post by Tom Shelton

Post by Mayayana
Just as they gave C# slightly more power than VB.Net.
The vanity of many C++ programmers requires that they
be able to pretend to be Paul Bunyan, even if they're
only being allowed to trim the hedges.

LOL. Inferiority complex much?

Tom, the guys whith the inferiority complex are not the
ones who still use VB6 (we're won't to be ridiculed, but
couldn't care less). The guys with the complex are the ones
who thought that "trimmin hedges" would be a good alternative -
those guys are still not good at C++ or C# programming - but love
to point out in VBClassic-Forums how superior their tools are
(although they still have no clue how to use their toys properly).

Not sure what drives them guys to constantly re-visit "old places".
I assume this is kind of a Love/Hate-thing, such guys have in addition
to their inferiority-complex.

Post by Tom Shelton
I never said Windows and WinRT are the same thing. Windows 8
and Windows RT are the same thing.

Blabbery - WinRT is a non-adopted API - it's dead (or soon dead), period.

What people want and need from MS is the full-featured old API and
normal Desktop-Apps. That's the sole reason, the Surface (the version
which runs Win32 on x86) is the only "marginally successful one"
(despite the much higher pricing, compared with the RT-Only-ARM-version).

Post by Tom Shelton

Post by Mayayana
As I understand it, the
idea is to find as many acorns containing Prozac
as possible, and I win when my squirrel gets blissed
out. Is that correct? I can't wait. It sounds like a
barrel of laughs. :)

Well, considering an assanine game like "Flappy Bird" was making
something like $50 G's a day for the developer - that might not be
such a bad idea :)

Tom, we're all anxiously praying for your success in this - I mean,
you considered that idea already for the last two years or so -
well, just write it up with C# - .NET is much more productive than
VB6+COM (as you told us repeatedly) - so much, that I'm wondering now,
why you're not long finished with this - should only take two weeks
or so, to:
- "get rich with MS"
- "though only if you're using the new-super-productive tools"
- "and of course always work against the newest available APIs"
- "always-swim-well-in-front-of-the-bleading-edge-tech-wave-with-us"
- "not using such ancient concepts as 'a Desktop' of course"
- "or god beware ridiculous old tools like VB6 to program for it"
- "your customers will just *looove* Squirrel-Apps on Win-RT...
- "that's of course also the trend for the industry as a whole"

I think I've gathered everything you really wanted to say in this
thread quite compactly above, didn't I?

Now be a good marketer and and consider your job done - invest
more time into learning a new API which has flopped - convince
yourself again and again about the overwhelming success MS'
mobile-concepts had in the industry - I mean, 2% market-share
is really not bad for a newcomer in this field.

Good luck.

Olaf

[Rudolf Harras]

Post by Tom Shelton
Of course, you have at least answered one thing for the OP correctly-
you can't use VB.CLASSIC in any form to write a windows store
application targeting the modern ui.

That wasn't my question.

But after your answers I know a better way to ask:

So, my question is: If I'm used to Visual Basic 4, which modern MS
programming language should I use for doing Apps for the Metro UI on
Desktop, Phones and Tablets?

I found a tutorial on Youtube that explains how to do it, but this
tutorial uses Visual Studio Express 11 Beta - a product I didn't find on
the MS Server.

[Tom Shelton]

Post by Rudolf Harras

Post by Tom Shelton
Of course, you have at least answered one thing for the OP
correctly- you can't use VB.CLASSIC in any form to write a windows
store application targeting the modern ui.

That wasn't my question.
So, my question is: If I'm used to Visual Basic 4, which modern MS
programming language should I use for doing Apps for the Metro UI on
Desktop, Phones and Tablets?

Much clearer...

Well, if you seriously want to target Metro UI - then the closest you
will come to VB4 is VB.NET.

Post by Rudolf Harras
I found a tutorial on Youtube that explains how to do it, but this
tutorial uses Visual Studio Express 11 Beta - a product I didn't find
on the MS Server.

Start here:
http://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/visual-studio-express-vs.aspx

If you really are serious about developing windows store apps, etc -
then I would suggest if your just starting out looking into Microsofts
BizSpark program:

http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/

If accepted, you can't beat MSDN Ultimate for 3 years free (along with
up to like 4 MSDN Ultimates for employee's).

[Rudolf Harras]

Post by Tom Shelton
Well, if you seriously want to target Metro UI - then the closest you
will come to VB4 is VB.NET.

Ah ok thanks!

Post by Tom Shelton

Post by Rudolf Harras
I found a tutorial on Youtube that explains how to do it, but this
tutorial uses Visual Studio Express 11 Beta - a product I didn't find
on the MS Server.

http://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/visual-studio-express-vs.aspx

Thist still is confusing. When I want to download from there I'll get to
a localized page that suggests:

Express 2013 Ultimate (Trial)
Express 2013 for Web
Express 2013 for Windows Desktop
Express 2013 for Windows

so which one is it?

Also I guess I'll need Windows 8 for that, or can I create Metro Apps on
Windows 7?

Post by Tom Shelton
If you really are serious about developing windows store apps, etc -
then I would suggest if your just starting out looking into Microsofts
http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/

This sounds interesting. Indeed I'll try to convert some Android App I
had developed, but still I don't know if my programming language is good
enough nowadays. Also that App will be Open Source anyway.

So I guess for getting this in the marketplace without this programme it
will cost?

[Tom Shelton]

Post by Rudolf Harras

Post by Tom Shelton
Well, if you seriously want to target Metro UI - then the closest
you will come to VB4 is VB.NET.

Ah ok thanks!

I wouldn't really thank me :) VB.NET maybe the closest to VB4 of the
choices, but, it's not exactly VB4's next door neighboor.

Post by Rudolf Harras

Post by Tom Shelton

Post by Rudolf Harras
I found a tutorial on Youtube that explains how to do it, but this
tutorial uses Visual Studio Express 11 Beta - a product I didn't
find on the MS Server.

http://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/visual-studio-express-vs.aspx

Thist still is confusing. When I want to download from there I'll get
Express 2013 Ultimate (Trial)
Express 2013 for Web
Express 2013 for Windows Desktop
Express 2013 for Windows
so which one is it?

Express has a different version for each type of project - the paid
versions support multiple project templates. Wiht express you download
one or all depending on what you want to develop. Express 2013 for
Windows is the one for developing Windows Store apps. Express 2012 for
Windows phone if you want to do phone apps. For Desktop is for doing
standard windows win32 applications, and the web is for well, web
projects.

You might also want to download Team Foundation Server 2013 Express as
well for source control - though, I tend to use svn myself :)

Post by Rudolf Harras
Also I guess I'll need Windows 8 for that, or can I create Metro Apps
on Windows 7?

You will need windows 8 for windows store apps - that is true.

Post by Rudolf Harras

Post by Tom Shelton
If you really are serious about developing windows store apps, etc -
then I would suggest if your just starting out looking into
http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/

This sounds interesting. Indeed I'll try to convert some Android App
I had developed, but still I don't know if my programming language is
good enough nowadays. Also that App will be Open Source anyway.
So I guess for getting this in the marketplace without this programme
it will cost?

Yes, there is a cost. $19 a year I believe for an individual, and $99
or $100 for a company account.

[Rudolf Harras]

Post by Tom Shelton
I wouldn't really thank me :) VB.NET maybe the closest to VB4 of the
choices, but, it's not exactly VB4's next door neighboor.

Let's see if I can handle that. The Tutorial somehow looked promising.

Post by Tom Shelton
Express has a different version for each type of project - the paid
versions support multiple project templates. Wiht express you download
one or all depending on what you want to develop. Express 2013 for
Windows is the one for developing Windows Store apps. Express 2012 for
Windows phone if you want to do phone apps.

Hm. So that means with the free version I cannot do an app and compile
it for Windows Phone and Windows Convertible Tablets?
(Like the ASUS Transformer Book T100)

And with the full version I could do both?

Post by Tom Shelton
web projects.

Web Projects - does that mean I could do Silverlight programs in Basic?
Or what kind of web projects?

The whole MS product palette in this case is very confusing, the
download site doesn't answer any of my questions. :-/

[Mayayana]

| The whole MS product palette in this case is very confusing, the
| download site doesn't answer any of my questions. :-/

Tom probably has better links about this stuff, but here's
one that explains, somewhat, about your options.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/jj651567.aspx

Hopefully this is a project for yourself, for the fun of it.
The whole business of RT apps (Metro AKA Modern style
AKA Windows 8 style) is not promising. Even people who like
Windows 8 are not showing interest in Metro apps. Microsoft's
phones, so far, have gone nowhere. I've had the impression
that the Surface has been fairly successful. I'm surprised by
that, as it's a *very* expensive product for what you get.
But it seems to have appeal as a mobile version of MS Office.
(Not a Metro apps UI.)

There was news this week that Mozilla discontinued work
on Firefox for Metro due to lack of interest:

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/178659-firefox-28-released-windows-8-metro-version-removed-at-the-last-moment-because-it-only-had-1000-users

You can find statistics around -- about the rate of Metro
app downloads -- if you're interested. Those are pretty much
the 3 venues: Win8, Surface or other RT tablets, and Windows
phone. And they're different venues. And they're all flops.

On the other hand, no one's making money on iApps or
Android apps, either. It's a largely frivolous fad in the first
place. As Tom pointed out, Flappy Birds was
a big success. But the fact that 50 Shades of Gray has sold
100 million copies doesn't mean that planning a career as a
successful author is a good idea.

[Rudolf Harras]

Post by Mayayana
Hopefully this is a project for yourself, for the fun of it.

Sure. But it's even more confusing now.

There is Windows Phone 8 SDK. But this seems to work only for 64bit
Windows 8:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19055676/can-i-install-windows-phone-sdk-8-0-on-windows-8-pro-32-bit-computer

So... all Microsoft did here is really confusing.

[Farnsworth]

Post by Rudolf Harras

Post by Mayayana
Hopefully this is a project for yourself, for the fun of it.

Sure. But it's even more confusing now.
There is Windows Phone 8 SDK. But this seems to work only for 64bit
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19055676/can-i-install-windows-phone-sdk-8-0-on-windows-8-pro-32-bit-computer
So... all Microsoft did here is really confusing.

Wrong group. Try posting here:

http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/home?forum=vbgeneral

[Deanna Earley]

Post by Rudolf Harras

Post by Mayayana
Hopefully this is a project for yourself, for the fun of it.

Sure. But it's even more confusing now.
There is Windows Phone 8 SDK. But this seems to work only for 64bit
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19055676/can-i-install-windows-phone-sdk-8-0-on-windows-8-pro-32-bit-computer
So... all Microsoft did here is really confusing.

Why?
The charter here doesn't exclude any particular variant and is
explicitly listed as:
"...will be a place for any discussions of topics which are not covered
by the other three groups."
(No matter that it pre-dated .Net)

The OP wanted to do it with VB (unspecified variant), and so fits inside
the charter.

[Farnsworth]

Post by Rudolf Harras

Post by Mayayana
Hopefully this is a project for yourself, for the fun of it.

Sure. But it's even more confusing now.
There is Windows Phone 8 SDK. But this seems to work only for 64bit
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19055676/can-i-install-windows-phone-sdk-8-0-on-windows-8-pro-32-bit-computer
So... all Microsoft did here is really confusing.

Why?
The charter here doesn't exclude any particular variant and is explicitly
"...will be a place for any discussions of topics which are not covered by
the other three groups."
(No matter that it pre-dated .Net)
The OP wanted to do it with VB (unspecified variant), and so fits inside
the charter.
--
iCatcher Development Team
http://www.icode.co.uk/icatcher/
iCode Systems
(Replies direct to my email address will be printed, shredded then fed to
the rats. Please reply to the group.)

That was written in 1994, long before MS made the two products distinct,
answers for one almost always does not apply to the other.

[Deanna Earley]

Post by Farnsworth

Post by Rudolf Harras

Post by Mayayana
Hopefully this is a project for yourself, for the fun of it.

Sure. But it's even more confusing now.
There is Windows Phone 8 SDK. But this seems to work only for 64bit
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19055676/can-i-install-windows-phone-sdk-8-0-on-windows-8-pro-32-bit-computer
So... all Microsoft did here is really confusing.

Why?
The charter here doesn't exclude any particular variant and is explicitly
"...will be a place for any discussions of topics which are not covered by
the other three groups."
(No matter that it pre-dated .Net)
The OP wanted to do it with VB (unspecified variant), and so fits inside
the charter.

That was written in 1994, long before MS made the two products distinct,
answers for one almost always does not apply to the other.

That doesn't change the fact it's still a BASIC or Visual Basic variant
Feel free to post a newer version of the charter though.

[Rudolf Harras]

Post by Farnsworth
That was written in 1994, long before MS made the two products distinct,
answers for one almost always does not apply to the other.

So what you are saying is:
"Usenet Newsgroups are dead - there won't be any new groups and we will
only continue using it for old stuff". Well then they'll be dead for sure...

[Rudolf Harras]

Post by Farnsworth
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/home?forum=vbgeneral

This isn't even a group, this is a WWW-forum.

[Rudolf Harras]

So I found something new:
http://readwrite.com/2014/04/03/microsoft-universal-windows-app-store-developers-unified-code-base#awesm=~oCf5yNisHzKkoK

"Universal Windows Apps" should make it possible to write "apps" for
both Windows Phone and Windows 8.1 (on desktop).